There was a confrontation in September 2021 between Archives chief counsel Gary Stern and former White House deputy counsel Pat Philbin, who was also a candidate for Archives, over the Trump records, according to the source. The source said the engagement was part of the ongoing process to return the boxes. Stern asked Philbin about the records. Philbin questioned Meadows and relayed to the Archives that Meadows said there were only 12 boxes, that they were simply filled with newspaper clippings, and that Meadows had assured him that no documents had been destroyed. Stern then repeated to Philbin that the Archives had information that there were more than 12 boxes, that they had a list of missing documents, and to please keep looking. Stern made it clear that “we need you to keep looking,” the source with knowledge of the conversation said, adding that the Archives “believed there were about 24 boxes.” Stern recalled his conversation with Philbin in an internal email. This email provides the Justice Department with real-time, up-to-date notes on what Trump’s team was saying in the Archives. Philbin also told the Archives that Meadows had said they were not aware of any other boxes. Philbin maintained that he did not know the contents of the boxes or that there was classified material inside, according to a person familiar with the matter. The source tells CNN that the National Archives saw the exchange as part of a protracted effort to convince former President Donald Trump to send presidential records to the Archives from Mar-a-Lago. The exchanges were first reported by the Washington Post on Friday. Ultimately, many more than 40 boxes were found at Mar-a-Lago containing classified documents and presidential records. As CNN previously reported, Meadows has also been trying to get Trump to return documents to the National Archives since last year. Meadows is one of Trump’s nominees in the Archives and was involved in the summer of 2021 after being contacted by Philbin. While at Mar-a-Lago last summer, Meadows spoke with Trump about the documents he was requesting the Archives return, sources said. Meadows has continued to work with the Archives in its efforts to recover documents since then, according to the sources. “Mr. Meadows did not personally examine the boxes at Mar A Lago and had no role in examining or verifying what was or was not contained in them,” Meadows spokesman Ben Williamson told CNN. Philbin did not comment when asked by CNN. The Archives have not responded to CNN’s request for comment. This story has been updated with additional details. Evan Perez and Pamela Brown contributed to this story.
